This episode of Got China dives deep into the TikTok refugees’ migration to the RedNote phenomenon and tries to put together all the pieces that led to this happenstance.
Transcript:
Got China Episode 10: TikTok Refugee and Xiaohongshu (RedNote)
Yang Liu: Hello everyone, welcome to the latest episode of Got China. This time, we are super excited to have you join us to discuss one of the most fashionable news that has happened lately, but before we get into that, let’s introduce our two members of the panel.
Yuxuan Jia: Hi, everyone. My name is Yuxuan Jia. I come from the Center of China Globalization (CCG). I’m also the Managing Editor of The East is Read, a newsletter.
Chang Zhang: Hi, nice to see you all. My name is Zhang Chang. I’m an Associate Professor at the Communication University of China, I am from the School of Government and Public Affairs. My research interests mainly range from international communication to international relations. Nice to see you!
Yang Liu：So welcome both of you. This time we are going to discuss the Xiaohongshu phenomenon which has captured the attention of people on both sides of the Pacific, namely a lot of people they are calling themselves, the TikTok refugees. They are moving from TikTok to a Chinese social media platform called Xiaohongshu and Yuxuan, I wanna start off the conversation by asking this question, what should we call the app that is appearing in the news? It is called Xiaohongshu in Chinese which literally translates into a little red book in English and then some are calling it Red Note. So which of these names should we call it?
Yuxuan Jia： Well if you want to respect the language, of course, you can read it as Xiaohongshu, but then Red Note is OK because apparently the company has already changed the English name from Xiaohongshu to Red Note on the App Stores.
Yang Liu： So Red Note is the official English name for the app?
Yuxuan Jia： Yes. So little red book. I just want to clarify that Little Red Book is not actually Mao’s quotations. So, in Chinese, the quotes from Mao are actually Hong Bao Shu (红宝书) or simply Yu Lu (语录), which makes quotes. So, it doesn't have the Chinese connotation that many English speakers might think of. So, it’s just a platform for fun, a little red book, maybe a little book guide to fashion, to lifestyle, to make up, so it is really a free and fun platform.
Yang Liu： So basically, onlythe English-speaking world calls the quotation of Mao Zedong, the little red book, not the Chinese-speaking world?
Yuxuan Jia： Yes exactly.
Yang Liu： I see. So, let's stick maybe with either Xiaohongshu or Red Notes in our discussion. Yuxuan, I know you've been an avid follower of this whole thing from the beginning. Can you walk us through how did you discover this? What was your first reaction to it?
Yuxuan Jia： So, I am basically a daily user of Xiaohongshu, and on the morning of January 14, I woke up to as usual to scroll for some fashion advice. But then I discovered several videos from US TikTokers saying that they are refugees from TikTok and they are coming to this app because obviously there is a ban going on.
Yang Liu： So you've never seen this before?
Yuxuan Jia ：No, never. Before this refugee trend, Xiaohongshu basically only, exclusively for Chinese and the broader Chinese-speaking communities globally. But it's so rare to see a foreign face on this platform.
Yang Liu： And then they just grew more and more.
Yuxuan Jia： Yes more and more. And according to Reuters, there were 700 thousand new users within the span of two days.
Yang Liu：Wow, that's a big number.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, it's just amazing. And apparently all indicators are suggesting there are now over a million new users from the US now.
Yang Liu：Okay, that is a considerable chunk of people. Do you know what the explanation is for them migrating from TikTok to Xiaohongshu at this time?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, that's actually one of the questions that Chinese netizens are asking them. So why are you suddenly flocking to this Chinese app? So, their answer is basically because there is a TikTok ban going on, so they have nowhere else to go. And they just don't like Instagram.
Yang Liu：Why don't they like Instagram?
Yuxuan Jia：They don't like the algorithm, and they just somehow don't like Meta.
Yang Liu：Alright, Alright.
Yuxuan Jia：As such they decided to join a Chinese app partly because it is acting as a protestation against the accusations that TikTok is stealing American data.
Yang Liu：Right, okay. So, some protests over there. I think according to my observation, Xiaohongshu is also very easy to sign up for foreign users, it doesn't require an ID or phone number. So, there is literally no threshold for American users to register and use.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, and it is actually a very mature platform for international users. Before this TikTok refugee thing, it is already used by the hundredsof millions of Chinese living abroad like in the US, the UK, and Africa. Apart from the Chinese mainlander, also many people from Taiwan use this app. It is very easy actually and convenient for citizen outside of China to register and get on this platform.
Yang Liu：And another factor that I saw somewhere is that because Xiaohongshu users are mostly urban dollars and are some of the more educated groups in China, who mostly speak some level of English, which made it easier for these American users to communicate. If it was another social platform, maybe it wouldn't have created such chemistry between these newcomers and the original inhabitants of this community. Those are very good points and since then, I think media from both countries, China and the US and worldwide have really seized on this phenomenon and really gave it a lot of coverage. So Ms Zhang, I know you are a communication expert. And do you think that these global media coverages have also attracted more people to join Xiaohongshu and made this even more well known across the world?
Chang Zhang：I think definitely so I myself have been attracted to this phenomenon not by scrolling the app but by viewing some posts on the WeChat public account. So, I myself can be well on arguing that I am attracted to this phenomenon and going to do the research on the Red Note by media coverage. And I guess many foreign registers were also attracted by the same track.
Yang Liu：Right. Throwing the question back at you Yuxuan, I mean following this trend, you say you are mesmerized by this phenomenon, and you even wrote a very cute piece that was published in your newsletter, The East is Read, that is titled?
Yuxuan Jia：“I am your Chinese spy, show me your cat.”
Yang Liu：Okay, “I am your Chinese spy show me your cat,” which describes the interaction between the American users and the Chinese users. We are gonna put the link to that newsletter down below, so check it out. But for now, Yuxuan, could you tell us, what the interaction is like? What are both sides saying?
Yuxuan Jia：So, in the beginning, it was more like, why are you guys here? What are you doing here? But then as people got to know the reason behind this, they were asking for just very little details of life. For example, what did you have for breakfast? Like when did you get up? Show us your room if it is no offense. And how is your backyard doing? And also, there are some very curious questions…
Yang Liu：Curious questions? What do you mean by that?
Yuxuan Jia：I find it very interesting, for example, do you Americans really wear your shoes in bed because that's what we Chinese are seeing on TV.
Yang Liu：Okay, so Americans now know how the Chinese look at them and what is the defining feature, that you wear your shoes in bed.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, and then why do some Americans love big beards?
Yang Liu：Big beards?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, big beards. And this one very interesting question. I mean no offense, but when you sleep, does your bed go outside or inside the blanket?
Yang Liu：Okay, that is a very specific question. And what was the answer? How are the American users taking these weird, but interesting questions?
Yuxuan Jia：These are very general questions, and the Americans are happy to see them, and they are answering them very diligently, one by one in the conversation, and sometimes make new videos to answer them.
Yang Liu：I imagine these curiosities go both ways, right? So are there questions that the Americans are asking the Chinese? What are their top curiosities?
Yuxuan Jia：Basically, it's very similar. What do you eat? Where do you live? And just what kind of TV shows do you enjoy?
Yang Liu：What kind of TV shows? Chinese or American?
Yuxuan Jia：Like, do you get an American TV show? And sometimes they can be very specific. I’ve seen several posts about whether you get Doctor Who in China.
Yang Liu：Doctor Who, okay.
Yuxuan Jia：They are looking for any, and I was like we do get Doctor Who in China and I am one of the fans. Let's make friends, contact me, please.
Yang Liu：So like fans are reaching out across the Pacific Ocean, the people with the same interest basically.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, and the people with the same hobbies, for example, crochet, knitting, birdwatching, and gardening. They are really finding each other, and they are so excited to be in the same group. And I've heard that some of them are even planning to like exchange gifts.
Yang Liu：Wow, that's very heartwarming, right? I want to ask this specific term which comes up repeatedly, which is cat tax. What is all that about?
Yuxuan Jia：So apparently, if you want to stay in this app and keep using it, you have to post your cat pictures.
Yang Liu：Really?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, that is mandatory. Show me your cat or your dog or your horse, chicken, fish, or plant. And of course, if you happen to get a six-pack, we are ready to take an abs tax.
Yang Liu：Okay, show us something about yourself, show us something cute about yourself. That is a trick for the eye and is this going both ways? Are the Chinese offering up some sort of pictures on their side to attract the Americans?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, under every cat tax or dog tax video, you see hundreds of replies of Chinese with their pets, the cute little cats and dogs. Some Americans are especially posting, especially on this cat tax thing, saying now the tables are turned, Chinese show me your cats.
Yang Liu：I am sure all of these are done in good humor, and I also saw some screenshots of people asking for help with their homework. Right? Are they really doing that or are they only doing that as a joke?
Yuxuan Jia：Well apparently, some Chinese students sick of their English homework are seeking help with their English tests. But actually, it's not a very good way of seeking help because you usually see two three, or four different answers in the comment section.
Yang Liu：Even among Americans?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, Americans are disagreeing with each other.
Yang Liu：Okay and Americans, are they asking for help with their math homework?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, and I think most Chinese can get it right anyway.
Yang Liu: Ms. Zhang, I am sure you are also following this trend of Xiaohongshu. Have you witnessed any examples that really caught your attention?
Chang Zhang：There are two issues that really captured my attention.
The first thing is that one American girl posted one video to search for an exchange student that she used to be friends with.
Yuxuan Jia：I know, his name is Simon, right?
Chang Zhang：Yeah, Simon.
Yang Liu：You all saw the same?
Yuxuan Jia：Yeah, that was very trending.
Chang Zhang：We see a lot of Simons emerging, right? On the RedNote. And I think a lot of netizens come about to help her to identify and find Simon within one day, right?
Yuxuan Jia：It's within 24 hours.
Yang Liu：And they found Simon, within China? Among 1.4 billion people? They find one Simon.
Chang Zhang：Yeah, based on a very low-definition picture. It's amazing.
Yang Liu：Talk about finding a needle in a haystack, right? So, what is your second?
Chang Zhang：My second case is that there's one grandpa, like a senior guy. He keeps posting, he said Ni Hao and I'm so glad to be in this community. And then we all know the time difference. So, when the Chinese netizens realize it's already late at night in his time zone, okay? People come to remind him, grandpa, please go to sleep, take care of yourself. We are so caring about you. And he was so touched. He posted another video to say this is a message of gratitude. Thank you, all of the Chinese young netizens. I am so moved by your care. I love this welcoming and encouraging supportive environment. I'm personally being touched by those kinds of moments.
Yang Liu：That is just some tremendous goodwill coming from both sides for each other. Right?
Yuxuan Jia：Speaking of reconnecting, I've seen many posts that are posted by Americans to look for absolute strangers from China. When they visited China 7, 8, even 15 years ago, they took random pictures with the local Chinese and they're trying to locate.
Yang Liu：Just random, like a passerby or, right, okay.
Yuxuan Jia：Just they are asking around, does anyone know who this is? I've seen no successful cases so far, unfortunately. But there's one successful case. This is an old Chinese professor, he posted his diary on Xiaohongshu. He was not expecting to reconnect with anyone, but he was recounting his first experiences with America. So, he was saying when in1948, the Americans came to the village to distribute milk. So, he ran for the milk. But unfortunately, he tripped, and his cup broke, and he just missed the American milk. And then in1986, he met his first American, a professor from America and they talked long hours about just technical stuff. But they've never seen each other since. So, he was not expecting to reconnect with this American professor.
Yang Liu：That he met in the1980s?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes. But the netizens are so enthusiastic. The netizens wrote to this American professor. They successively located him, and wrote an email to him and now they are reconnected.
Yang Liu：On Xiaohongshu？
Yuxuan Jia：Yes.
Yang Liu：Well, that's probably gonna make my top ten moving stories of the year, right?
Chang Zhang：Totally.
Yang Liu：Is there one example that you particularly like seeing, observing all these interactions between the two sides?
Yuxuan Jia：There is a trend starting yesterday. It's called reply letter to Li Hua.
Yang Liu：Who’s Li Hua?
Yuxuan Jia：So, when we Chinese students when we learn English, we often write letters to this fictional, imaginary American friend, it can be called Tom, Jane, Sarah, anything. And then we will always call ourselves Li Hua.
Yang Liu：So, it's a writing exercise to an imaginary American friend under the name of Li Hua?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes.
Yang Liu：Okay, so who's replying to Li Hua now?
Yuxuan Jia：The Americans, they are really replying to these letters. So when we were students, we would end every letter, either introducing ourselves or introducing a friend or even planning a tour around the country, we always end the letter with, “looking forward to your reply, yours, Li Hua,” But then we never expected them to be replied and read, and the Americans are seriously writing back to this Li Hua in China. It is such a heartwarming and healing experience. For many Chinese people, it is like a childhood dream come true.
Yang Liu：Wow.
Yuxuan Jia：They are hundreds of reply letters to Li Hua now. Either in video form or in text form and many most of them have got Chinese translations, so sweet. To be honest, I cried so hard last night.
Yang Liu：Really?
Yuxuan Jia：I cried, I literally cried.
Yang Liu：What do some of these responses look like? What are what are being responded to the Li Huas.
Yuxuan Jia：It's really simple things, but it's the simple things that capture your heart. Like I'm sorry, it took me so long to reply to you and I'm doing fine. I live in Iowa, I've got a farm. I live on a farm, and we've got snow here. Do you get snow? We like to play with our dogs, do you get pets? It is really simple language, but so touching.
Yang Liu：Right, I imagine so. I mean I would definitely be moved to tears probably if I receive a letter that I've sent repeatedly in my childhood but never have gotten the reply. It's almost like if mankind gotten a reply from aliens. Is that an appropriate parallel?
Yuxuan Jia：But anyway, it is friendly. We are all friendly.
Yang Liu：Right, okay. Wow. I have to make a confession that I'm not an avid user of Xiaohongshu and I think I'll go back and go check it out and maybe get in some of the action exchange.
Yuxuan Jia：You are missing a lot of stuff out there.
Yang Liu：Alright. So, like if we take a step back and look at the whole phenomenon, do you think this was planned on Xiaohongshu’s part, or did it happen by chance? Which one do you think it is?
Yuxuan Jia：So, I read some reports by Chinese media on some Xiaohongshu staff members and it is apparent that they didn't expect this coming. This was not planned, and they were equally surprised as we Xiaohongshu users by this influx of our American friends.
Yang Liu：Right. If it was totally unexpected by Xiaohongshu and I think this phenomenon really set a precedent in the communication between China and the US in which this is probably the first social media platform that such great numbers of both Chinese and American users are simultaneously using, and I think that really sets a precedent.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes. But not simultaneously. As we say it, Chinese use it during the day and the Americans used to do it during the night, because of the time difference.
Yang Liu：Wow, I almost forgot about the time difference obviously. So according to your observation, how is the platform reacting to this phenomenon? I'm sure they are watching it very closely, but do you think they are encouraging it? They are discouraging it? What are they doing?
Yuxuan Jia：I think they are not discouraging it.
Yang Liu：They are not discouraging it, okay.
Yuxuan Jia：Right, so, many people predicted at the very beginning of this trend that there will be soon sidles between Chinese and American, that the Chinese posts will not be seen by the Americans and the English posts will not be seen by the Chinese people. But then, we did not see that happening. In fact, I am still seeing loads and loads of American posts on my for your page. And some people are even complaining that the original algorithm of the app has been messed up by this influx of Americans, and now they only receive English posts.
Yang Liu：Well, you yourself are a victim, right? I mean you were going on the app for fashion advice, but instead you got all these posts from American users.
Yuxuan Jia：Well, it is a happy change. I would love for more and more and more American friends’ posts.
Yang Liu：Right. I certainly do hope this goes on and you the US users or wherever they're from, can enjoy their experience on this app and from talking with Chinese everyday users.
Yuxuan Jia：You really get a feeling how physical these connections are. The Americans are actually making Chinese dishes.
Yang Liu：They're making Chinese dishes?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, starting with the simple ones, for example, the egg custard or steamed egg, it's very simple.
Yang Liu：I know steamed egg. That's what we eat when we're sick or ill.
Yuxuan Jia： It was my childhood favorite. My grandma used to make it for me.
Yang Liu： It's very simple too.
Yuxuan Jia：It's very simple. With the egg, and add some hot water, and steam it. And a small tip, from my grandma's recipe, when you add hot water, you can also add a little pinch of salt, and some oil.
Yang Liu：Okay, that is a secret recipe that you have just been fortunate to share.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes. So they are making better egg custard than I do, at least.
Yang Liu：So, there is, people are sharing recipes. I've been looking forward to some of these American made steamed eggs. I really do hope that get some traction in the US, because I think it's really delicious and very simple to made.
Chang Zhang：Definitely.
Yuxuan Jia：And really see the cultural factor playing, even in cooking. So in many videos posted by Chinese netizens, they always break the spaghetti.
Yang Liu：Okay. What's wrong with that？A reason? I always do that because my pot isn't big enough for spaghetti.
Yuxuan Jia：But it's not approved by Italians. So in the comment section, you can always see devastated Italians and happy Chinese and Americans. Totally oblivious to the offensive down to Italians.
Yang Liu：I need to apologize for Italian viewers, really sorry for wrecking Italian cooking.
Yang Liu：Right. And Ms Zhang, at this point I wanna pivot a little bit to you, because you are a communications expert, and I want to get an academic perspective on this whole thing. I'm wondering as you are following this phenomenon on Xiaohongshu, what do you think is going on in the minds of these American users? What has incentivized them to make this migration from Tiktok to Xiaohongshu?
Chang Zhang：I think from my observation and based on my chat with some of the real TikTok refugees, I think the main reasons that are driving their migration is two-fold. First is a spirit of protest and second is curiosity. Speaking of the protest, I think they are mainly protesting against US tech giants who they consider intend to reap the TikTok user base after getting TikTok being banned.
Yang Liu：So basically, you're saying Meta. Meta was responsible for getting TikTok banned. They're refusing to migrate to meta owned platforms and they're choosing something else.
Chang Zhang：Yeah. Not only Meta, it is a little bit like showing the trend of monopolization which people sort of hate but also twitter which tend to be over politicized nowadays.
Yang Liu：That's true.
Chang Zhang：Another subject that they are protesting against is the US government, which they consider is trying to manipulate information and trying to lock people within the echo chamber, which they try really hard to get rid of. I remember one of my interviewees mentioned that she considered herself as Moses. She said in ancient time, Moses led the Israel Lights out of Egypt and I'm leading my friends to the new digital land, the land filled with milk and honey.
Yang Liu：Wow. It would be much more difficult to split the Pacific Ocean, I think for Moses right here.
Chang Zhang：Yeah. And I followed a question, what do you mean by milk and honey? I think she mentioned that China, both China and the RedNote, she said, when we arrive at RedNote, we notice that people are so friendly, and welcoming. This is such an encouraging and supportive atmosphere that we have never experienced.
Yang Liu：Okay, that's encouraging. If people really like what they're seeing from Chinese people, maybe they all come over to visit one day.
Chang Zhang：Totally.
Yuxuan Jia：And some of them are already packing, I can tell you.
Yang Liu：Right? And taking advantage of this transit visa-free entrance policy, which I did a newsletter about earlier, as shameless self-public promotion. But if you want to visit China, now is a great time, because there is really favorable visa policy for a lot of countries in the world. You mentioned two layers, the protest spirit and curiosity. So what is the curiosity elements in here?
Chang Zhang：I think in terms of curiosity, people are trying to view the world by their own eyes. As I mentioned earlier, people tend to believe that to some extent they are locked in echo chamber. Within this echo chamber, they consider that the US government always scapegoat China for their own misconduct. So they are quite curious what China is really like. Are Chinese people really like what politicians are saying, like they are unfriendly, they are close-minded, they are stealing our jobs, they are adversarial. Are they really like what the power politicians and our media tried to tell us? So I think they are reaching towards the RedNote and try to communicate with real people, with real Chinese people who may even not know how to speak English. So they're definitely real people and no one is driving them. So I think they consider that genuine conversation with China and getting some firsthand impression of Chinese society is also driving their migration to RedNote.
Yang Liu：And as a result, they discovered that we all love cats, we all love crochet, we all love good food and we all love plants. Basically the same people.
Yuxuan Jia：Just know that some Chinese people could be lying. You know, under the video post of some very handsome American boys, there will always be comments like, it is custom in China that would do this kind of video shirtless.
Yang Liu：So basically we all love good looking men and women. Right. So basically again, everybody is really the same. No one's really that different from anybody else. So are there any like popular misconceptions that you observed from either side?
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, the Americans are asking Chinese whether we do have a social credit system.
Yang Liu：I've seen that somewhere. I've seen that somewhere.
Yuxuan Jia：And the Chinese in the comment section just astounded by this myth. Chinese are also asking Americans, for example, is it true that American girls do not have period pains?
Yang Liu：Okay, that's a weird thing to believe. Right. I don't think Americans are built any different from anybody else. Well, that's really good. I mean that people are connecting directly with each other, to disperse some of the misconceptions and find out that what the other is really about. And I think, going a little further from the two layers that you've mentioned, protesting spirit and curiosity only prompt them to make the jump from Tiktok to Xiaohongshu. But for them to stay here, they must be able to have fun, right? And they think that it's fun to be here. Do you think they are having fun right now?
Chang Zhang：I think in general, they are really having fun on this new platform. I think they are enjoying some fresher moments. They're talking to me that although there are some features, they are totally Chinese. I don't know what they mean, but just clicking and exploring, make me learning some new stuff. And also people seem so nice and supportive. They always praise me, no matter what I do? This is totally different from the environment I used to be, the digital environment that they are referring to. I think by far, in the honeymoon, people are enjoying themselves.
Yuxuan Jia：And the Americans, I think, are really learning mandarin now. So Duolingo were reported a 216% surge, the number of US users learning mandarin. Compared to the same time last year.
Yang Liu：I remember Duolingo sent out a tweet saying, now you want to learn, where were you before, should have been prepared for this.
Yuxuan Jia：Right. But for now, they're using like translators. If you search Google trends, the popularity index for English to Chinese has surged from around 20 suddenly to 93, and a hundred top score ever.
Yang Liu：Wait, I know Wechat or some of the other Chinese apps, they have the automatic built-in translation function. Does Xiaohongshu not have those?
Yuxuan Jia：It didn't have in the beginning, but they managed to do it in 2 days.
Yang Liu：Really? Okay, that is the magic of Chinese.
Yuxuan Jia: China speed.
Yang Liu: Computer software. Bravo to them. And on an even higher level, Ms Zhang, what do you think this communication between Chinese and Americans will do for the broader Chinese American cultural exchange.
Chang Zhang：I think I would compare this issue to the historical PingPong diplomacy. Back then, Sino-US relationship was also in a difficult time, just as what we are experiencing nowadays. In today's climate, I think US-China relationship is experiencing some challenging period, when the US and China trade tension, technological competitions and some security acquisition from both sides. But I think as we just discussed, those heartwarming moments are really breaking those ice from the bottom-up level. Just as what PingPong diplomacy has done to our Sino-US relationship bounding. Maybe in this time, the formal level of diplomacy is hard to make meaningful progress. Then maybe people-to-people diplomacy is a real resolution that we can start from.
Yang Liu：All right, I really do hope that this people-to-people exchange can build and expand, and maybe grow into something more beautiful. And I hope people can find their missing or the acquaintances from the past, or lost friends, and get their letter from childhood answered.
Chang Zhang：Yeah.
Yuxuan Jia：It's really pleasant that some American netizens are saying, even if the TikTok, it's not banned, we were staying this App, because we love it here.
Chang Zhang：I think, to me, I probably would like to answer the question of would they stay at the RedNote, I think in terms of to what extent they will stay at the RedNote, my answer for that would be a question mark plus a yes. The question Mark is attributed to the RedNote, because I'm not 100% sure that the APP, which is an excellent App, but to what extent it can successfully adapt to the international environment to the international market, to what extent it can build a well-functioning translation embedded in this software. And also to what extent it can develop an inclusive and also mutually respectful community policy. But most importantly, how is it gonna deal with the monetization issue? Those are all open-ended questions.
Yang Liu：And very practical questions.
Chang Zhang：Yes. To keep high quality content producers to stay in this community, you have to make them, make those influencers profitable.
Yang Liu：Right. Because we know a lot of people stay on TikTok as a platform for small business, whether Xiaohongshu can be that similar environment for them to grow their business and earn money, is truly an open-ended question. I think Xiaohongshu has some experience in that field? A lot of Chinese have businesses on them.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, it does sell things. I spend some money on Xiaohongshu, but it's very difficult with the logistics, I think.
Chang Zhang：Yeah.
Yang Liu：We'll leave that for Xiaohongshu to figure out. And I do hope they get resolved. All right, so that was the question mark part that you just said. What about the yes part？
Chang Zhang：By the yes part, I'm referring to the fact that if you zoom out and to see the bigger picture, people's huge desire to connect is here to stay. Even if the RedNode cannot digest the huge traffic, it could be other platforms, for instance, Douyin, Kuaishou, Pingduoduo even, or the lemon8, you name it. So, my yes is given to the fact that people's desire to connection is here to stay, and people-to-people communication is here to stay, even it is not RedNote, it can be others.
Yang Liu： That's very interesting.
Yuxuan Jia: Yes. The more interesting thing is I've learned so much about my own culture.
Yang Liu：Really? I didn't expect that.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, I've seen more videos about Chinese traditional culture, not just the Han ethnicity, but all the other ethnicities. I've seen more videos about Chinese traditional culture than I ever have, on this Xiaohongshu platform. And it's not just Han ethnicity. It's all ethnicities.
Yang Liu：You are saying that Chinese users are just proactively sharing about Chinese culture?
Yuxuan Jia：Some of them are proactively sharing. And some of them have been doing this. And now loads and loads of Americans and foreigners are watching this. They are seeing what traditional Chinese culture is like. The amazing thing is in return we are learning about American culture, not just the white culture, but also the black culture and Native American culture. It's amazing. And also we're also seeing users from Africa and the southeast Asia, and getting to know their local culture as well.
Yang Liu：I see. I should soon join Xiaohongshu and then learn about other cultures.
Yuxuan Jia: You should.
Yang Liu：Such a great platform.
Yuxuan Jia: Yeah.
Yang Liu：So Ms Zhang, as a communications expert, I'm wondering from your professional perspective, what is the aspect of this whole phenomenon that most interests you. Because obviously this is such a multi-layered event. You can look at it from so many angles, but what do you think that is most relevant to you?
Chang Zhang：The first thing that intrigues me a lot is that I happened to notice the real Gen Z digital culture. It is a culture featured with a rebellious spirit. The Gen Z people in the U.S., they refuse to be taught what to believe in. They decide to use their own digital steps to see the real world. And they are open-minded. They are not constrained by the stereotypes that they used to be educated with. They are eager to communicate with Chinese people, young people. And also, they are trying to engage in this meaningful inter-cultural dialogue. And also, I found a very interesting self-awareness of them. They would keep reminding each other that, we have to try our best to translate our sentences into Chinese, because we are here to join the community, we have to adapt to and integrate into the community rather than colonizing the community.
Yuxuan Jia：Yes, there was a post at the very beginning of this refugee trend, that's some American netizens posted, sorry for colonizing your App.
Yang Liu：That's what they say?
Yuxuan Jia：Yeah. Every Chinese netizen, of course, criticize the use of words, and they stopped using it.
Yang Liu：Okay, well that's one accomplishment, I guess. But I really like one line from you, that you say that it demonstrates that people are having an open mind. And I think as long as people are open minded, there's still hope for mankind. And with that, I think that is the end of our program today. I'll let you, both of you, get back to scrolling on Xiaohongshu. Again. Thank you for being with us. We hope to see you again soon.
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